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But, it's good at least, that you were slightly shaken. After all, it's you who have brought up these questions. (But that's beside the point here and at least you tried to answer my questions.) Since you HAVE given me this "title" perhaps I will live up to it AGAIN by offering the following FACTS with regard to your original post, as well as my probably-not-worth-much-commentary. Actually, Brian, I think you had mentioned a desire to know more about the Zionists on the other thread. The Holy Spirit was invoked there for one last call to all Christians." When was the Holy Spirit invoked at Vatican II? We are given the Holy Spirit, literally; in the gathering of any synod of bishops or of the Collegial College convened at the summons of the Pope. The Holy Spirit never goes away from the living Church, and the Church never dies. -- paul h (dont Send Me [email protected] An Address.com), November 15, 2004.

#1 We are getting closer and closer to the end of the age. I lived in Europe - Spain, Italy, mostly but visited France and Switzerland.

I visited a town in Tuscany where of the 800 families living there, only 8 actually attended Mass in the 13th century chapel. The rest had been Communist or Masons for 2 to 3 generations!

(First Masons, with the re-unification of Italy in the 1800's, then Commies begining in the 1940s.) They had a totally materialist conception of reality - they believed in life as animals - sex was just a sport, with no ethical dimension save for the "precautions" for pregnancy. I mentioned the apparitions of Fatima and he answered very gruffly.

We appealed to them; come forward and be included among his faithful. This is the moment for unwavering faith, not for looking back. You shouldn't be so eager to bury her because of the Council. If the reunion is failing by human estimation, it still is urgent for Peter to gather Christ's flock before the great tribulation.

--That's how I've understood every event coming by way of the 2nd Vatican Council, Brian. I completely agree, although I would point out that the Christian world has always been called to reunion. The Holy Spirit was invoked there for one last call to all Christians.

Does anyone else think that 40 years of ecumenism and the rise of miltiant secularism in Europe is not a complete coincidence? But, as I say, I am curious to know if "anyone else think(s) that 40 years of ecumenism and the rise of miltiant secularism in Europe is not a complete coincidence? -- Brian Crane ([email protected]), November 12, 2004. If you had been of the world, the world would love its own...? I think it's incorrect, Brian, to try to draw such a conclusion. You shouldn't be so eager to bury her because of the Council.

Does anyone else think that 40 years of ecumenism and waning Catholic identity of certain European countries is not a complete coincidence? " From your reply, I'm guessing I can put your name in the complete coincidence column. Dear Brian, I'd be interested in the direction you're taking such information. " -- Brian Crane ([email protected]), November 12, 2004. Protestantism was born in Europe 600 hundred years ago. Brian, everything evil in the world is NOT a direct result of Vatican II. Eugene, my family and I "officially" entered the Church at the Feast of the Assumption. Our waves of unbelief had their start well before the reign of John XXIII and the 2nd Vatican Council.

Since you are so concerned about upholding the glory of VII, let me tell you that the documents define no new doctrine or dogma."The truth is the opposite: Dialogue presupposes partners who have their own identity." Perhaps "genuine" ecumenism does not harm Catholic identity. Did you get to chat with Kiwi much the last time he was here? I had a feeling there was where you intended to go, Brian.But how about ecumenism at it has been practiced for the last 40 years? Are you talking about Jesus saying: "If the world hate you, know that it hath hated me before you... as well, and has been over the last 3 or 4 decades, now culminating in a great divide as has been evidenced particularly in this election year. I tried to find your e-mail in August to give you the good news but for some reason I couldn't find it. Christ promised His Church that he would be with her all days, even out of the last tribulations.You know better than that; It's God's Will, apparently; some are about to fall away.Instead of becoming reconciled and healed, some are rebelling and losing the faith.

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